It seems likely that Weatherup's from the Glenavy area were the progenitors of all the other Weatherup branch's...
So far we've come across mentions of Weatherup's in connection with Ballyvannon/Ballyvanen, Ballymote, Ballynacoy, & Ballypitmave in Glenavy, plus one mention in neighboring Tullyrusk Parish. Perhaps other places in the area will turn out to be significant as well!
I welcome anyone researching the Weatherup's (and spelling variations thereof) of this area, or anyone personally familiar with the area to join in and comment on the discussion.
First perhaps a bit of broad history of the region:
ReplyDeletePrior to 1605, the Killultagh territory (sometimes seen as the Captaincy of Killultagh) was part of County Down, not County Antrim. Originally (relatively speaking) was part of the O'Neill holdings of the Clandeboye region. The derivation of the 'Killultagh' name is believed to refer to it as the Forest or Woods of [the] Ulaid/Ulster[men?] and it was largely wooded and unsettled in the late 16th Century. Since 1609 the Killultagh manor (Caput at Lisburn) was part of the Conway estate which passed to the (future) Marquesses of Hertford. Sir Fulk Conway induced a number of English and Welsh families to settle there and the area was cleared and more heavily settled in the interveining centuries.
It consisted of large parts of the Massereene Upper [half-] Barony of Antrim, and portions of Castlereagh & Iveagh Baronies in County Down, but we are (apparently) mostly interested in the Glenavy (and Tullyrusk) parish portions in Massereene in Antrim.
Glenavy, Tullyrusk, and Camlin parishes have long been united (sometimes refered to as the Union of Glenavy).
Weatherup history in the area known thus far:
ReplyDeleteJohn "the Gunner" Weatherup, root of one of the two Ontario Weatherup tree's was traced to Ballypitmave (born circa 1783).
The three Weatherup brothers, who moved to the Carrickfergus/Straid/Slievetrue area who each married one of the Dorman/Doorman sisters in the mid-18th Century (not sure if the marriage was before or after the move), trace back to the area. They and/or many of their descendents emmigrated out of Ireland and are either confirmed or suspected to be the progenitors of Weatherup's today in most other countries (notably USA, England, Australia, Canada, & Scotland) as well as of those Weatherup's still in the greater Carrickfergus area. The Ballynure, Ballyclare, and the Larne/Glynn Weatherup's likely connect back to them as well (though I stress this hasn't been shown just yet). James is said to be born in Ballyvannon/Ballyvanen, William is believed to be connected to Ballynacoy/Ballinacoy, and the third brother (disagreements as to whether this is Alexander or Thomas) is said to have been born in Tullyrusk parish.
One, unsubstantiated lore from a local (on the GlenavyHistory.com Forum), is that the family came with William III's army into the area and were involved in furniture making (wardrobe). Other lore has that the family were Scottish, English, Dutch, or even Norwegian, so who knows what to believe!?! William III's army was in the area however 1689 and the 1690s, but I don't think any of us have found any records earlier than 1700, right?
Sue got a ton of unsorted records of births, Marriages, and Burials for the area. Hopefully she can post it here, or I might be able to eventually get around to it myself.
In the other thread Neal pointed out the Glenavy history website (http://www.glenavyhistory.com/index.html). Going through some of the subpages of that site that get returned when you search for "Weatherup" or "Witherup", here are summaries of the relevant tidbits, and some of my own reactions to the info (or perhaps I should say ramblings).
ReplyDeleteI'll also be keeping an eye out for mentions of the related Boyd, Dorman/Doorman, Hendron, & Haskil surnames as I go through this.
Starting with the records of the 1862 Griffiths Evaluation records-
I see mention of "James Witherupp" (#25), tenant of the Marquis of Hertford, 12/2/30 (presumably Acre's/Rod's/Perche's of English measure?), in Ballypitmave (elsewhere, an Index extraction also shows James Witherupp of Ballynacoy, same person with two holdings or two different individuals? And of course there's several others in Ballynure and Carrickfergus, but that's outside this area)
"Alexander Witherupp" (#20), tenant of Thomas Cardwell, 16/03/15, in Ballymote (presumably Thomas Cardwell is the same as #19 Thomas Cardwell who was a tenant of the Marquis of Hertford)
Thus they are both tenants or sub-tenants of the Marquis of Hertford.
Marquis of Hertford, in 1862? That would be Richard Seymour-Conway, 4th Marquess of Hertford (1800-1872). By 1862 he spent his time mostly in Paris and might very well of been one of the "absentee landlords", but he definately had connections to Antrim- one of the families subsidiary titles, dating to 1712, was Baron Conway of Killultagh, (of Killultag in the County of Antrim) in the Irish Peerage (confusingly they were also and previously Baron Conway, [of Ragley in the County of Warwick,] in the English Peerage), and Richard Seymour-Conway himself, back when he was styled as Viscount Beauchamp (untill 1822) and then styled Earl of Yarmouth, was one of the 2 MP's for Antrim 1822-1826 (as a Tory), a seat his father had held 1812-1818 and that other Seymour's held 1818-1822, 1845-1847, & 1865-1874 (though it should be noted that they were all unnopposed in their respective elections, re-elections, and by-elections according to Wikipedia)
(cont.)
ReplyDeleteThe Ballymote page also has mention of some Hendron's - perhaps cousin's of the Hendron's married to Weatherup's in Ontario.
On the Ballymote page: Extract of a will of Alexander Witherup, farmer (d. 7 Feb. 1879 in Ballymote) granted Feb 4th 1880, effects under 300 pounds, oath by Joseph Witherup of Ballymote, farmer, one of the Executors.
On the Ballypitmave page is the "interesting, but sad 1897 article about an 80-year old John Witherup" (scroll down to the "Deplorable State of Affairs" section)
On the Glenavy parish page is the entry from the Lewis Topographical Dictionary (1837). Then the parish had 3390 inhabitants. The Parish is a vicarage in the diocese of Connor, united to the vicarages of Camlin and Tullyrusk, in the patronage of the Marquess of Hertford, who is impropriator of the rectory and proprietor of the parish. Also the 1888 "book of Antrim" by G.H. Bassett lists M.J. Weatherup of Ballymote amongst the farmers and residents.
On the Parish Church - Glenavy Parish page, there are extracts from "Ordnance Survey Memoirs of Ireland - Parishes of County Antrim VII 1831-1838", some key points are: Glenavy is a vicarge in the advowson of the Marquis of Hertford, and has been united with Camlin and Tullyrusk since at least 1633. The 1834 census the parish had 3355 people, of whome 282 were Presbyterians (vs. 1589 Episcopalians & 1484 Roman Catholics).
Also mention of a George Hendron in "Ballymoate" paying 2s/6d and James Witherup in Ballypitmave paying 1s in 1876
Also mention of a J. Hendron among the Easter Vestry of 1887
Mention of an Edward Dornan of Ballycessy (could Dornan be a corruption of Doorman/Dorman?) in the right-of-way legal case of 1891
The Seymour's gained the advowson connected to their Killultagh holdings inherited in 1683 from the Conway's. Under the Conway's it also included the Parishes of Ballinderry and Magheragall from 1624 until ?. Apparently the previous separate church's of Camlin & tullyrusk had been destroyed by James II's forces.
Lough Neagh froze in 1814, at least enough that Col. Hyland (elsewhere called Lt. Col. Heyland) could ride his horse out to Ram's Island (no genealogical significance here, just thought it was a neat entry)
The 1812 church building was (later?) known as St. Aidan's Parish Church, Glenavy
Stoneyford Parish formed from Tullyrusk parish in 1886.
(cont. 2nd to last hopefully):
ReplyDeletePlaces of Worship - Tullyrusk Parish page
"Weatherup" is amongst the surnames on headstones, as is the Dornan family of Stoneyford (could they be Dorman family?).
"Here lyeth the body of Alexander Witherup who departed this life February 16th 1780 aged 60 years."
An undated extract claims that Tullyrusk is part of the Parish of Derraghy, along with Derraghy and parts of Lambeg, Drumbeg, & Shankhill. but very next sentence reads "Te entire parish of Tullyrusk, with its various chapels belonged, in the reign of Henry VIII, and perhaps from a very remote period, to Shankhill Church"
one big entry left...
A significant page is the one of the "Parochial Survey of Ireland by Rev. E. Cupples, Vicar (1816)"
ReplyDeletesome notes from it:
the three parishes combined are the "Union of Glenavy"
formerly in the "terror Tory of Killultagh", half barony of Upper Massareene
In the union are 1082 inhabited houses, 9 being built, and 42 uninhabited. "They are mostly built of stone and lime, mud cabins not being common; in general they are not more than one story; often roughcast and whitewashed; usually thatched, and sometimes slated; the windows, in many instances, and with the doors painted, and one or two rooms floored."
the "terrorities" of Killultagh escheated to the queen by the attainder of Shane O'Neill in 1569. Granted to Sir Thomas Smyth and Son in 1571, "on condition of subding all rebels therein, and planting them with good subjects. Pursuant to these conditions, a colony was sent over; but the younger Smyth lost his life in the attempt to establish it; and after the sum of £10,000 had been expended, the undertaking was rendered abortive by the decided opposition of the O’Neills. The conditions not being fulfilled, the grants in consequence became void, and reverted to the crown." "In the year 1604, Con. O’Neill, in consideration of a pardon granted to him by the king, at the suit of Sir James Hamilton, consented that these lands, with others, should be conveyed to him by letters patent. From Sir James Hamilton they passed, about the year 1609, by letters patent, to Sir Fluke Conway, at that time an active officer in the English army; who, by introducing English and Welsh settlers, and with them English and Welsh manners and improvements, greatly contributed towards the civilization of the inhabitants, and the cultivation of the soil. The family of Sir Fulke Conway enjoyed the territories of Killultagh until the year 1683, when Edward the last Earl Conway" bequaethed them to Sir Francis Seymour, who had been the fiancee of the Earl's daughter, she having died on their wedding day before the marriage but Conway still considered Francis his son-in-law, and having no son's himself, bequeathed the teritory to Mr. Seymour, ancestor of the Marquis's of Hertford. (most other records I've come across howere say it passed first to Francis's elder brother Popham Seymour in 1683, until Popham's death in a duel with Col. Kirk in 1699 when it then passed to Francis)
1813 population: 6107.
1713 estimated population: 1433, then being largely wooded.
part of the diocese of Connor, previous part of the diocese of Down in the ancient rural deanery of Clandermont.
Ballymacreevan, Ballytromery, Ballygortgarve, and Ballyshanoghy was leased the Sir Hercules Langford, Bart. by Lord Conway about 1670 and are now held by the Countess of Longford.
"From the year 1741 to 1745, nearly the entire of the union was let by the late Marquis, then Earl of Hertford, for three lives and 41 years, from three to five shillings the acre. The longevity of the inhabitants is strongly evinced by the number of these lives who yet survive. When a lease expires, the land is re-set by the present Marquis to the occupying tenants, at a moderate rent; and no advantage taken of the houses, and other buildings, made by the tenants. On no estate perhaps in the country, is tenant-right more respected; and hence the many comfortable houses, and several elegant mansions, which have been erected, and the high rate at which the tenant-right is sometimes sold. The tenure given by the present Marquis, is one life and twenty-one years, and the rent may average at about 16s an acre"
"Witherup" is amongst the list of surnames. No Hendron, Haskill, nor Boyd (though there are several "B?"). There is a Dornan but not Do(o)rman (again though, there are several "D?").
On the assotiated map the numbered township's (of interest) are #4 is Ballyvannen, #11 Ballymoate, #16 Ballypitmave, & #17 Ballynacoy
The map I mentioned in the last comment is at http://www.glenavyhistory.com/book_cupples_maps.html
ReplyDeleteSomeother sites about the history of the area (I didn't see anything specifically Weatherup related in them, but I didn't read all of them)-
Glenavy Past and Present
http://www.lisburn.com/books/glenavy_past_present/glenavy_past-1.html
Some Extracts from the records of Old Lisbun and the Manor of Killultagh
http://anextractofreflection.blogspot.com/2010/11/extracts-form-records-of-old-lisburn-iv.html
and that's more than enough from me today.... goodnite all.
I looked up the full transcript of the 3 Weatherup entries in Glenavy on the Griffith Valuation (1862) at http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=nameSearch
ReplyDeleteFormat:
Name
Immediate Lessor
on Page #
Place
Lot #
Description. Office(s) includes any economic related structure that is not just a dwelling, thus factories, mills, and farm outbuildings such as stables, shed's, barns, etc.
Area in Acres, / Roods / Perches (40 square Perches to a Rood & 4 Roods to an Acre)
Taxable or Rateable Annual Valuation: Land, Buildings, total each measured in pounds / shillings / pence (12 pence to a shilling and 20 shillings to a pound)
#1:
Alexander Witherupp
Marquis of Hertford (not Thomas Cardwell as glenavy history has it, that is the entry one line above for one Joseph Hill, who farmed Thomas Cardwell's lot 19) Pg 124
Ballymote (Twnland), Glenavy (Parish), Lisburn (Union), Upper Massereene (Barony), Antrim (County)
Lot 20
House, Offices, and land
15 or 16 (can't tell) A/ 3 R/ 15 P
13/15/0 (land), 2/15/0 (buildings), 16/10/0 (total)
note: George Hendron is in 17, structure "a" (the main building on a lot) (landlord: Marquis of Hertford, house, office, and garden, 0/1/20 0/15/0 0/15/0 1/10/0), & John Steele (landlord: John Hendron) is structure "b" (House and Garden 0/0/16 0/5/0 0/15/0 1/0/0) (listed like John Steele is a cottager of the Hendron's)
#2:
James Witherupp
John G. Murray
pg 117
Ballynacoy (Townland), Glenavy (Parish), Lisburn (Union), Upper Massereene (Barony), Antrim (County)
Lot 21
Land
6/0/3
3/5/0 (Land), - (buildings), 3/5/0 (total)
#3:
James Witherupp
Marquis of Hertford
pg 118
Ballypitmave (Townland), Glenavy (Parish), Lisburn (Union), Upper Massereene (Barony), Antrim (County)
Lot 25
Houes, office, and land
12/2/30
9/0/0 (land), 1/5/0 (Buildings), 10/5/0 (Total)
#2 & #3 have the same name, but #2 has no house, with no other James's mentioned nearby. In almost all certainty this means they are the same person, James having his lot from the Marquis in Ballypitmave and also farming a 6.01875 acre parcel of fields in Ballynacoy from Mr. Murray.
Hi
ReplyDeleteOne of the things that I have found out about family research is not always to believe information handed down orally. For a long time I believed an ancestor to be William when in fact it was Thomas. My great grandfather was Thomas Weatherup b. 1880, d. 1955, buried in Glynn Cemetry outside of Larne. I saw in a post that Sue may have a note of his birth on her Glenavy investigations, if that is so I would be very interested to hear about her research.
Best Regards
Alison
note to above Thomas born 1880 was my grandfather, not great grandfather as wrongly noted above. My great grandfather was William, B. 1832, my great great grandfather was Thomas (whom I am trying to confirm ancestry).
ReplyDeleteI have looked at the Glenavy Parish records and see that my ancestors are noted there. Namely my great grandparents William & Margaret Witherop. Their children are noted and dates of birth are correct for Samuel, Mary, Lizzie, Mary (two Mary's one died in early childhood)and Margaret. Another child David, who died due to a traffic accident on Great Victoria Street, Belfast in the late 1890s is not listed. The Jane Weatherup married to Edward McCluggage is another daughter. Their son Andrew was a well known international footballer in his day.
ReplyDeleteWilliam John and Robert were not children of above so are wrongly listed.
The wedding registation for William & Margaret (Alexander) Witherop (Weatherup)shows them as having married in Ballycarry Presbyterian Church on 14th October 1864 - Samuel was born at the end of the year. William's father is registered as Thomas who's occupation was that of bleacher. The two witnesses at the ceremony were William John Weatherup and Mary Alexander. The townlands of Carnduff & Ballyverstown listed on the Glenavy Parish Records sit side by side, and our farm actually strides these two areas.
I am now researching Thomas Weatherup - father of above. His wife Mary is buried in our family grave in Larne, according to the inscription she died in 1898 at the age of 95 years which would give a date of birth around 1803.
The name of Thomas on the wedding registration is not particularly clear, I initially thought it to be James - but the assistant at the research centre said it was definitely Thomas.
Can anyone give me any information on this Thomas in the Glenavy area?
Other facts which may be useful, the above named William (from information gleaned off the family headstone) died at the age of 66 years in 1898 which would give him a date of birth of 1832.
The William John Witherop and Robert Witherop recorded on the Glenavy Parish Records are the children of William Witherop and Margaret Ann Ellwood - not my ancesters. This information was gleaned from www.familysearch.org.
ReplyDeleteAn amendment to my previous post regarding my great grandfather William Weatherup : Other facts which may be useful, the above named William (from information gleaned off the family headstone) died at the age of 66 years in 1895which would give him a date of birth of 1829 not 1832 as I previously stated.